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Post by griphos on Jan 25, 2011 1:53:53 GMT 1
I just wanted to post a short race report on the first race because I didn't just want to disappear without thanking everyone here at LFS.be for being so friendly and helpful. I was glad when I found this group because my experience with the open servers was so dismal. Couldn't find a race that wasn't a crashfest. Then I found your races and joined the Sunday races when I could and was looking forward to the season. Those Sunday races were good fun. I wasn't always fast enough to be competitive, but everyone raced clean and was very helpful. Even the practice race at Aston was a good race. Not too many people, and some very fast racers, but good, clean racing by everybody.
That's why my experience in the first season race was disappointing. In the first little sprint, I got hit by Hanzi as he got sideways in the track. Wasn't his fault. I think he was hit by someone else and that's why he was sideways. But it did significant damage so I pitted and fixed it, but that put me at the back of course. Okay. That's racing.
But in R2, I started up front (having finished near the back in R1). Scatter pulled over at the start as he doesn't like starting up front. Don't blame him. I wound up in a group of four cars racing close at the front of the pack and pulling away a little. I was able to stay with them no problem. By the end of the last turn, I don't remember if it was L1 or L2, I was in second, and several of the new guys I've not seen racing before, who were the fast ones in R1, were behind me. They didn't seem to like being behind me, and one of them spun me around. There was no excuse for it. We weren't slowing to turn. We were already out of the last long turn and he just shoved me around.
Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but that just was too much like the behavior I saw on the public servers.
I very much like LFS, but it seems that the online racing in this sim is troubled by poor regard for clean racing.
I've been racing at two other online leagues, one using Netkar Pro, and the other using Race07. I love Netkar, but am not that crazy about Race07. But at both those places, the racing is always clean. There are accidents, of course. But people don't just drive into the back of other people to get them out of the way. And if someone causes someone else to spin or go off track, the person causing it waits for that person to retake the track and gives back the place. That makes everyone think twice about shoving others around.
I don't want to be hasty in my judgment, and I appreciate this league and what it is trying to do, but that first race wasn't a good experience for me. I'll probably try it again. I just wanted to voice my concern and explain why I might not be at the next race.
Thanks.
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Post by xtian on Jan 25, 2011 8:06:27 GMT 1
Hi Griphos and thank you for your input. I'm sorry things turned out this way for you.
What you are reporting is not a normal nor tolerated attitude in our league. We can admit that this is racing and that accidents can happen on an overtaking manoeuvre (especially when racing with someone for the first time), but we do not tolerate aggressive driving or intentional crashing.
our rules state that if you cause someone else to spin or get out of the track by your fault, you MUST wait until he can rejoin the race and stay behind him.
With the increasing number of cars on track, we cannot review everybody's race and see every incidents. When something happens and you think the rules were ignored, you must wait for the end of the race and report it to us by email. It can be very frustrating to go back on the race after something happened but why would the other follow the rules if you stop doing it ...
We will try to see what happened on the replay and remind to the person concerned our rules and our faith in close and clean racing.
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Post by hanziboy on Jan 25, 2011 20:46:48 GMT 1
Hi just looked at it to and had a discussion with the 2 other admins. What we see during the incident : Griphos is up front and is losing his back in the corner.. BUT keeps it full throttle and would have lost it propably. Miro is is closing on Miro, who is slowing down due to his back stepping out.. Miro hits Griphos and instead of losing the throttle, he keeps it floored.. With Griphos already in oversteer losing his back completely. This all happens in a couple of seconds, but more then enough time to release the throttle when Miro has hit Griphos. So this is a bit of a race incident that maybe would not have happened if Miro would have braked but could have resulted in the same result with Griphos flooring the throttle. The only certain mistake Miro did make is that he did not wait for the Griphos and he did not resumed the race behind him. So a bit of errors made on both sides.. and as we don't want to trow with penalties from the first race. So Miro gets no penalty but gets two warnings instead for the following race. The status on the active warnings can always be seen on the website : www.liveforspeed.be/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=133&Itemid=93With this action I hope we send out the correct signal that we are indeed a league were FUN is the main goal !!! And FUN can just be made without a lot of frustrated racers because they were driven of track. So a reminder to all to watch out for unnecessary risks, especially during the first lap where the car is at max load for the race, has cold tyres and brakes and where downforce is often lost due to close racing. I'm sure we will have a lot of nice races in the future !!! Complete race report almost ready.
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Post by griphos on Jan 25, 2011 22:05:38 GMT 1
I apologize if voicing my concern this way wasn't the proper place for it. If there is any repeat in the future, I will email the admins. And perhaps my sense of the incident is clouded by my larger LFS experience. I didn't intend, though, to raise a complaint. Just explain my experience and say thanks for the fun I've had to this point. But I agree with Xtian that just stopping after one frustration is not the best approach either.
I completely accept the admin interpretation of the incident and appreciate their attention to it. My own sense is that I frequently drifted a bit in that corner (as did others) and never had any trouble keeping the car under control while maintaining full throttle on the exit. One of my favorite corners actually. I do not think I would have lost control in this instance unless hit and spun. But I have no issues with the decision and would not ask for anything different.
I appreciate that you are running a league that intends for many people to have fun, and cannot and should not worry about keeping each individual driver happy. I do hope the result from this will be that those racing will focus on racing clean and helping everyone have fun.
Mistakes happen. I know I've made some in my short time racing. It's important to have policies that minimize the impact of those mistakes and promote good racing.
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Post by TDRT M.Tuutijärvi on Jan 26, 2011 0:35:03 GMT 1
My apologize to Griphos, I'll take the blame for that incident. I misjudged our racinglines for the corner exit, checked my mirror and in a brief moment my cars frontend touched your cars backend and the rest we know. I'll have to check the .mpr myself too, but I know that I was careless in that situation and I know that I could have avoided the incident with being a bit more careful. I was going to apologize after the race, but you were already gone. I never crash on purpose and I am doing my best on my behalf to keep it that way, but sometimes accidents happen and all we can do is to learn from them to avoid them. I race in GTAL atm and I've seen lots of dirty and clean racing in LFS after starting it in 2005. Back then we had very nice races in the public demoservers but nowadays it is really hard to find any good racing to have fun from any public server and then me ruining your day in a league race must got you a bit frustrated. I might get even furious ;D I would still like to say that try to prevent jumping on conclusions, they might hurt a good atmosphere for almost no reason at all. I also hope that there will be no hard feelings on one way or another. Once more, thanks to the admins and racers in the first race, had some nice and otherwise clean battles with some of you and I hope to see you all in the next event Btw, thanks for reminding me from this, I almost forgot it before I got that e-mail. This is a strong sign that you guys want to keep this league clean and alive for long and I will do my best to help you guys in it on my behalf. Keep up the good work -M. Tuutijärvi (Miro -fin-)
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Post by xtian on Jan 26, 2011 5:46:03 GMT 1
Well, I'm glad we could talk this out. Thank you to both of you for being good sport.
Please note that my first comment about intentional crashing was made BEFORE I reviewed the incident and analysed it with Hanzy and Scatter.
The pedals view showed that you had different approach in this corner, and different lines. with several cars racing together, mayhem can happen in a second. Accident happens, we want to avoid any frustration, but I also hope that it won't prevent us from having exciting close action in the next races.
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Post by SLO_Scatter on Jan 26, 2011 15:40:40 GMT 1
Glad you guys could talk this out. It helped both of you clear up any speculation each of you had regarding what happened, and now you know. Thank you Miro for explaining your views and your apology. Griphos, since the incident happened on lap 1 you could have used that as your forced pitstop to fix the car, then continue. But don't let the heat of the moment control your actions. Just take a deep breath, regroup, and keep on racing.
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Post by griphos on Jan 27, 2011 1:49:00 GMT 1
Sorry it sometimes takes me a while to respond, but our days are a bit out of sync with each other. I appreciate Miro's response. It does help to hear the perception of an actual person and not just speculate about the motivations of an anonymous other. So, no hard feelings, and happy to hear it was just redirected attention rather than intentional. I do think waiting for someone knocked off to rejoin is the right thing to do, and am glad that is a rule here as well. As Miro says, my experience in the public servers colored my perceptions.
It is great to have this forum where that communication can happen.
See you all soon on the track.
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Post by towzt on Jan 27, 2011 11:59:00 GMT 1
5:13.25 - Xtian crossed the pit exit line...20sec penalty HAHAHHAha (sorry xtian, i coulnd't leave it )
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Post by xtian on Jan 27, 2011 12:19:38 GMT 1
5:13.25 - Xtian crossed the pit exit line...20sec penalty HAHAHHAha (sorry xtian, i coulnd't leave it ) indeed, I noticed that too I just took a quick look at the map to check if I could come out safe, then I looked back at the road and a lot of strong language and cursing followed. pregnant doging admins ! <-*edit : i like what you did with the strong language filter * Attachments:
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Post by SLO_Scatter on Feb 1, 2011 16:58:38 GMT 1
This is why you received a 20sec penalty. I did not give any penalties for touching the grass. Your left side tires were over the yellow line after the red painted area. Sorry. Attachments:
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Post by xtian on Feb 1, 2011 17:53:23 GMT 1
I'm not opposing any argument ... As far as I know the exit line is a very simple rule and it is not subject to any discussion...
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Post by SLO_Scatter on Feb 1, 2011 20:56:05 GMT 1
I know,... I'm just showing you the pic I used.
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