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Post by xtian on Jan 31, 2009 15:44:47 GMT 1
rock 'n roll
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Rasta
Full Member
Posts: 20
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Post by Rasta on Feb 1, 2009 2:09:25 GMT 1
OK. I like long races but you have to measure the length of the race against some factors.
Like for instance; how many racers are likely to start the race knowing they will not finish the race; of those that do start how many can sit still comfortably for that length of time: mentioned above, who is able to devote that length of time without another member of the house needing some assistance; which one of us will need the toilet break first?
I would very much enjoy an endurance race but not on my own need another drive to switch. Mostly for one or all of the reasons i mentioned I would find the race very demanding. I also believe that it will be harder to maintain focus later on in the day than earlier in the day. So racing an endurance as a single pilot takes much more planning.
Maybe the 3 hour race will be too long after all. I would not like to suggest a particular length for the race rather allow the practice session help decide the issue. I am looking forward to the race, i like the FZR, the Oval while i think can be boring going round in circles takes allot of concentration and skill. It will be a good race. The only problem has to be will i last until the end, (I don't know).
Lets see!
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Post by xtian on Feb 1, 2009 10:51:13 GMT 1
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pe
Full Member
OLD_Mumhra
Posts: 104
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Post by pe on Feb 1, 2009 22:57:33 GMT 1
Well that was a fun testrace. I was the only one with the XRR and that bugged me a little. I could keep up with the fast FZR's but i needed to be in their slipstream in order to do so and that was a problem. After a safetycar situation it took a lot longer to get the XRR up to speed. Often to long and then i lost the pull i needed so it was a bit of a lonesome race sometimes. Another problem with the XRR is that it is completely understeered when the tyres are cold. It took me 2 or 3 laps to get some heat in my right front tyre and that often was to much as well. Fun race tho but i have some remarks mainly considering the safety car situations... - When Hanzi and I collided we had to stay put and wait for the safety car to pass us. Luckely Hanzi was there to teach me how to do it since i had no idea. The safety car even passed us twice before we were allowed to start again. No problems there but i often noticed that when a safety car came out that nobody waited. The rules should be clear to everyone BEFORE they take part in the feature race. - Hanzi told me i recieved a reset after that crash. That sucks. I refused to take it. I don't even know how to take it. This is a simulator. Resets are no part of real life racing. I don't understand why we are allowed to take one in the first place. We crashed... so when the safety car comes out we just have to try and get to the pits in order to get our cars fixed. If we can't make it to the pits we should not be in the race any further imo. - I never knew when the safety car was going to go into the pits. In the beginning that was very difficult because the safety car went into the pits just before the wall started. To late if you ask me. The safety car should go in where the cones are placed that mark the pit entry. - Why is the pitlane closed when the safety car comes out ? It's like that irl, true... but the pitlane opens before the safety car gets inside. This makes for some great passes in the pitlane. We should try and copy that as well. My conclusion : This safety car thing rocks. But it has to many flaws. It's to complicated. It's to difficult. Most people don't know what to do when the safety car comes out. I did not comment on this before the race because i had never done a race with safety cars before in my life. I felt like i had to experience it first hand before i could comment and here is what i suggest. 1. The safety car waits at the end of the pitlane. 2. When something happens he types "safety car out.. pitlane closed" and he comes out just in front of the leader 3. The leader slows down to approx 160 km/h (100 mph). The others close the gap. 4. The cars that caused the safety car situation also have to stay out and follow the rest. If they can't (because of to much damage or whatever) they are allowed to wait in front of the pitlane entry but they are not allowed to enter it yet. They have to wait for the pitlane to open. 4. Nobody is allowed to overtake 5. From the moment the safety car is at the cones that mark pit in this is typed : "Pit lane now open". The cars that caused the safety car situation are obligated to pit in and fix damage. They can also take on fuel and change tyres but they are not obligated to do this. 6. Others are allowed to pit in and fix damage, take on fuel and fresh rubber but they are not obligated. 7. When the safety car passes start/finish this is typed : "Safety car is coming in. Clear blue flags" 8. At that moment everybody who sees a blue flag on his screen lets the car that is in front of him in the current standings in front of him so that nobody is shown a blue flag. 9. At the cones that mark pit entry the safety car enters the pits. From then on the leader decides the speed. But from the moment he gives full throttle he is not allowed to brake anymore. 10. Nobody is allowed to pass before you pass start/finish line. I think this is a lot easier then the rules we used. I did not knew how long i exactly had to wait and i noticed that nobody knew. Therefor it's best to forget about that. And forget about the reset thing as well... resets are for sissies P.S. Best to let these rules to be typed out by an english speaking admin so that it is clear for everyone. This is pretty important literature if you want to use safety cars next season in every single race
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Post by xtian on Feb 1, 2009 23:10:55 GMT 1
thanks for doing the admins' job pe it was a sort of first experiment for most of us. the only comment I'd have is maybe it is to the crashed car to call for a safety car because only he knows if the SC is needed or not, admins and other players are too busy racing and cannot watch every car constantly. and also, in this race we actually have a player using a car as the safety car because scatter and I share the same race car, but most of the times, we won't have an actual safety car leading the pack, it will be the leader of the race, so that settles the problem of the safety car coming in too early. maybe one person (hanz?) can type "safety car IN, race resume" and the leader decides when he wants to floor it ? also, consider that in real life, there are tow trucks to get your car out of a bad situations (non-driveable) lfs for the moment does not have tow trucks or marchals to push you out of the sand traps. consider reset as the best alternative so far? what do we do when a car is on its top in the racing line? thanks for the input. X
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Post by towzt on Feb 1, 2009 23:18:52 GMT 1
Steps for completing a endranceu race on the oval If there is a safetycar, drink water (it is good to keep you awake have patience work in team to gain time on faster drivers, then when racing with 3 people, try to loose one of the other 2, (make sure they don't fool you, because they will try to do the same thing fighting for position within the 1St 100 laps is unnecessary (you will only loose tires and you might end up in a wall.), but close racing (as said before) is good for gaining time on other drivers Take a brick and put it on the throttle pedal, leave it there till the end of the race. report of practice race I was quite happy bout my first 15 laps, was racing close with Jyeucht (or wathever his name is ) and was gaining on Senna. then he made a mistake and i was 1 sec ahead of him, but lossing time on senna again. so i dropped back to work as a team, since senna would have a very lonly race otherwise (did it all for u senna ), a few laps later i somehow managed to screw up in the last corner sending me spinning in the pit. i did my pit stop then since i was in anyway. for some strange reason it filled my tank to 100% (it was set to 60 or something) after a while i was on my way again. then a safety car came on, everybody back togheter (with me already a lap down) i managed to squeeze my way to the front of the pack on the restart but got sandwiched betweed the wall and jy....t..h..e..u, who didn't really expect me to be there i think. that wasted my front suspension and i had to take every turn still steering to the right. i managed to drive at a descent pace (4Os laps) but my tires didn't rezally like it, i started spinning again in the last turn and spun into the pit, going backwards at 100 kphy ore something like that. so i had more damage (hit the pit wall) and a stop and go penalty. repaired my car refuelled (again it went to 100%) and went of. the next lap i came in for my stop and go. witch i managed to screw up by not pressing my clutch when revving the engine and putting it in 1st gear, so my car took off, and i had another stop and go. the lap after that i came in again, did everything correctly and tried to get out of the pit as fast as i could (without breaking the rules). i managed to misshift 2 times, burning my clutch (was nice red hot) but i managed to get the temp down ( building up the speed very very slowly) and soldiered on. by this time i was about 6 laps behind the leader, but i still had quite a good feeling becausez i managed to get the fastest lap of the race . sorry for the long report, but i am bored now. thonk i'm gonna go back to the server and ask for a restart
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Post by hanziboy on Feb 2, 2009 0:24:41 GMT 1
We put in the SC situations for the reason that ..the race would be bored otherwise... ;D And it brings the pack back together ... Indeed a reset is for sissies . And should only be used when it is impossible to drive you back. The rest can be used when upside down or the damage to large to return it to to pits. Then the racer waits there until the complete pack passes, resets and follows the pack. The SC should indeed also follow the same pit entrance as we all. To end the discussion on when there is a SC needed or not.. We add the rule that if you speed drops below 50 or you make a 360 we have a SC situation then indeed pitlane is closed so even if you could proceed , you go an wait at the beginning of the closed pitlane.... We will refine the rules once more and put them on the front page. Then we had the little discussion between Jyeutsch and Cramer. First of all I have to say that in most cases we can not drive our own race and watch the complete race at the same time... We also can not type and drive without putting it into the wall to. So every discussion is for after the race only!!! After every race we wait to put the points online for at least 24 hours..The time other racers have to fill in a complaint about a certain driver or incident. So we don't want this on the forum or during the race.. ONLY by mail or after the race when still online. Now the incident... We are at Lap 120 Towzt and Mumhra collide and we have a SC situation. When you see the text SAFETY CAR you only have to do 2 things ... Watch your current position 1. Sennaboy 2. Jyeutsch 3. Cramer . . . and SLOW DOWN !!!! Al lot were still going as hell making other collisions !!! That happened here to..... Xtian and Jyuetsch collided because they were still driving to fast and they could not avoid each other under braking.. and so Cramer overtook Jyeutsch under Safety Car procedure. and maybe then looked at his position.. And he thought he was 2nd..But infact at the Safety Car event he was indeed 3rd.... So ss said..never jump to conclusions to fast.....continue the race and press "2" (saves the replay) and watch it... If you think then you should complain then write a mail to admin A T liveforspeed.be .. and 3 admins will look into it.. Here the picture just after the Safetycar was deployed were you can see the position of Cramer and Jyeutsch (still in front of him) Cramer still on full trottle to.
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Post by humbleridderen on Feb 2, 2009 0:47:25 GMT 1
That´s wrong. If Jyeutsch and xtian have an accident under the safetycar procedure, and I pass them because of this, they should not try to retake that position, but stay where they find themselves in the row after their crash. The "No passing" rule is still the rule.
It´s just as any other accident..and why should you keep your position if you are involved in an accident, even it´s under safetycar procedure? Doesn´t make sense to me.
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Post by hanziboy on Feb 2, 2009 0:55:57 GMT 1
I thought we seen this happening in F1 to some years ago and also there the care making a little error on warming the tyres was granted to retake his position..
The biggest problem we had is that most of us (yes me to) continued to drive to fast during SC procedure.. Once SC is called we know there is trouble up ahead and should slow down a lot and be able to stop for cars on the road...
Hey but in a way i'm glad this all happed during the practice race..It will make the official race much better...
Forgot the thank you all for being there tonight. !!
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Post by humbleridderen on Feb 2, 2009 1:00:27 GMT 1
I thought we seen this happening in F1 to some years ago and also there the care making a little error on warming the tyres was granted to retake his position.. The biggest problem we had is that most of us (yes me to) continued to drive to fast during SC procedure.. Once SC is called we know there is trouble up ahead and should slow down a lot and be able to stop for cars on the road... Hey but in a way i'm glad this all happed during the practice race..It will make the official race much better... Forgot the thank you all for being there tonight. !! Ithink the F1 case was because he was granted to be in front of the already lapped drivers..not the cars he was on the same lap with. Pe: Good thinking you made there with the rules!
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Post by hanziboy on Feb 2, 2009 1:25:15 GMT 1
there is indeed such a rule in F1.. I compare the situation we had this evening like when a car has trouble starting form his position during the formation lap. Also then that car is overtaken but he may retake that position during the formation lap.
But as you can see. J thought he was right and you did... But this can only be discussed after the race.
On the other hand.. We will have to put this situation in the Safetycar Rule section.. So this kind of situation is clear on a next similar event.
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Post by humbleridderen on Feb 2, 2009 1:34:44 GMT 1
there is indeed such a rule in F1.. I compare the situation we had this evening like when a car has trouble starting form his position during the formation lap. Also then that car is overtaken but he may retake that position during the formation lap. But as you can see. J thought he was right and you did... But this can only be discussed after the race. On the other hand.. We will have to put this situation in the Safetycar Rule section.. So this kind of situation is clear on a next similar event. Could be nice to find the exact rule from Nascar or Indycar about this type of situation. Jyeutsch: Sorry for being mad at you. It´s not personal. My temper was being tested, sorry! After 123 laps things had gone well, so far, so suddenly get it all destroyed made me angry. We just had 2 different rules in our minds, which conflicted on the track. The race had been mostly well. In the start of the race, I was practicing the drafting with hanzi and it was fine. Just that we need to be better because I could run the same times alone..lol. Then I had another pitstrategy which helped me be in second position after all had ended their pitstops. I was more than 1 lap in front of Jyeutsch. Then I had a half spin, just before the pitlane and hitting the inside wall. I had to drive through the pitlane. Then I was still in 2nd position, but now Jyeutsch was only 17 seconds away. I lost 1 lap on that mistake. But that was ok, because he couldn´t catch me anyway. But then SC and he was there and passed just thereafter. Then the incident in the safetycar period, where we were fighting for 2nd position..and I logged off in frustration.
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Post by towzt on Feb 2, 2009 3:56:03 GMT 1
That´s wrong. If Jyeutsch and xtian have an accident under the safetycar procedure, and I pass them because of this, they should not try to retake that position, but stay where they find themselves in the row after their crash. The "No passing" rule is still the rule. Doesn´t make sense to me. well, Jyeutsch his speed was already down at the moment, it was Xtians mistake (sorry to point the finger) Jy started slowing down within 5sec of the warning, he was driving about 14à if I'm not mistking at the moment of the crash. if it would have been his fault, i would agree hat he would loose his position, but since it wasn't he still diserves his 2nd pos. but off course it is very hard to see such a thing during a race
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Post by xtian on Feb 2, 2009 7:14:33 GMT 1
absolutely, it was entirely my fault. sorry about that, the rules weren't too clear for me either and I was too afraid the guy behind me would pass me just before we reached the pace car, and I came at the back of the pack too fast. I decided to avoid J on the right rather than set my tyres en fire but he went on his right too and I banged between J and the wall. sorry :/ ... when J came back I saw the both of you banging doors untill he went in the grass again, maybe this could be avoided if the cars where in a single line behind the pace car ? it's not like we'd have a problem with overheating engines or anything (yet) ?
so next time, as soon as the SC is announced, no more passing and we all drop speed. lesson learned.
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pe
Full Member
OLD_Mumhra
Posts: 104
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Post by pe on Feb 2, 2009 9:24:01 GMT 1
thanks for doing the admins' job pe it was a sort of first experiment for most of us. No probs Xtian. I have a lot of experience in both online and real life racing and i just felt like this safety car needed some improvements so i thought i could just as well help out a little. My proposition probably still will have some flaws but even in F1 a safety car situation never is completely flawless lol. the only comment I'd have is maybe it is to the crashed car to call for a safety car because only he knows if the SC is needed or not Not always lol. I was sometimes in a situation where i did not know if i had to call for a safetycar or not. A few time i touched the wall. One touch being rather severe but i did not call far a safety carbecause i just took on some damage but nobody was affected at all. Another time i actually made a 360, the tyres gripped again and i could continue without any problems. I don't remember if a safety car went out that time but according to me it was not needed since i almost lost no speed at all and nobody else was involved. I did not want to call for a safety car because with the rule we used yesterday calling for one with give you a 2 laps penalty (because you had to wait) Luckely Hans cleared this up for us with an rule that states when you have to call for a safety car. To end the discussion on when there is a SC needed or not.. We add the rule that if you speed drops below 50 or you make a 360 we have a SC situation then indeed pitlane is closed so even if you could proceed , you go an wait at the beginning of the closed pitlane.... A few remarks on this rule tho lol... 1. Is that 50 km/h or 50 mph. I suggest that for oval racing we use mph because oval racing is an american speciality. 2. Isn't 50 to slow ? If someone is driving at 55 he is a serious hazard imo. I think it should be upped to 100 mph. 3. If I was involved in a crash and the safety car was deployed i would be the one who had to wait at the pit lane entrance. Where exactly is that ? At the cones that mark the entrance or at the entrance itself ? I suggest at the cones since the safety car types 'pit open' when he passes those cones. It would give me an unfair advantage if i was to wait at the entrance itself. 4. What if multiple cars are involved ? Who exactly has to go to the pits. The same rule as above ? He who spins out and/or their speed drops between 50 (or 100) ? also, consider that in real life, there are tow trucks to get your car out of a bad situations (non-driveable) lfs for the moment does not have tow trucks or marchals to push you out of the sand traps. consider reset as the best alternative so far? what do we do when a car is on its top in the racing line? I don't keep up with Nascar and Arca and all that stuff but i think that when a tow truck comes out to tow your car away that your race is over. If you can't continue by yourself towards the pitlane then i think your race should be over because in that case the crash simply was to severe. Besides, in LFS the damage on an oval never is that big imo since the car slides further against the wall and normally does not flip over. The problem i have with a reset is that your damage is fixed. You actually give the guys that call out for a safety car a big advantage. If your car is in very bad shape it might be a good idea to put it in the wall so you can take a reset. You should always keep in mind that guys that are involved in crashes wherefor a safety car must come out should not be favoured in any way. They should be punished. Not by a lot but by a little. Can someone please explain me how to take a reset and what exactly is fixed when you take it ? Is it filled up with fuel ? Do you have fresh tyres ? Is engine damage fixed ? What about clutch damage ? etc etc etc.... Pe: Good thinking you made there with the rules! Just trying to be of assistence
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