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Post by hanziboy on Feb 2, 2009 13:09:10 GMT 1
was my conclusion to, no blue flags anymore on oval races... Dammed, I think this item is braking the records of fast posting
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pe
Full Member
OLD_Mumhra
Posts: 104
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Post by pe on Feb 2, 2009 13:28:45 GMT 1
LOL... sorry, i have nothing else going on today And it's not over yet... i still have one remark i completely forgot about but which should be attented as well i think. Sorry to be such a pain in the butt lol... My final remark revovles around the qualifaction session. What we did yesterday does not work imo. We were only with 7 yesterday and I was one of the last cars to leave the pitlane. We had to wait at the end of the pitlane and wait 5 secs every time a car left. Now the problem is that the leading car almost made an entire lap before i got going. Since slipstreaming is forbidden during qualifying we should make sure that it is impossible as well. And with the qualification format we used yesterday it was possible. Not yesterday because we only were with 7 but if we are with 10 (for example) it will be to crowded. Therefor i suggest that for this race an alternative qualifation format must be found.... Luckely back in my GPL days i once did a season of thundercar racing.. all tracks were ovals and i think we used a great qualification format there. As you know i hate things that make it less lifelike.. resets, shift-P (i don't even have a clue what that does lol) and stuff like that is forbidden territory for me. I go out, do my laps and go back in. That is racing. All the rest is gaming imo. k.. what to do... for starters you have to make sure that at no point during the qualication session there are more then 3 cars on the track. 1 doing an outlap, 1 doing a fast lap and 1 doing an inlap. So, at the start of the qualy session we all go to the pit line exit. When the admin tells someone he can go out he leaves the pits and picks up speed. From the moment he crosses start/finish line he enters his fast lap and the 2nd guy is allowed to exit the pitlane. The car that is in it's fast lap makes 1 complete lap and passes start/finish again. At that moment a 3rd car is allowed to exit the pitlane. The car that just made a fast lap now starts the inlap, reduces speed and goes of the banking asap and resumes towards the pitlane. The car that was just doing an inlap will now pass start/finish line and will start its fast lap. and so it goes on... looks difficult maybe but actually it is pretty simple. I suggest however Hanzi that if you are going to do this we try and find a time when we can try it out this week. Just as a test but it should not be a problem at all. I have done it heaps of times.
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Post by humbleridderen on Feb 2, 2009 13:46:51 GMT 1
Well, my point with showing you the F1 rulles was to get information, not to copy. I can see how they would have thougt in different situations, if they use their rules. It´s good to know, in order to make good rules for us.
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Post by hanziboy on Feb 2, 2009 13:55:46 GMT 1
pe : indeed nice system, but when we all come out of the pitbox waiting our turn at the end of the straight.. The last one will have very cold tyres....
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Post by humbleridderen on Feb 2, 2009 14:29:15 GMT 1
pe : indeed nice system, but when we all come out of the pitbox waiting our turn at the end of the straight.. The last one will have very cold tyres.... It´s possible. I have used that system in another league I arranged. It´s called superpole. Very nice, but it takes longer time, if you are many. Good, when you are not so many. But to be compared with a normal qualification of 15- 30 minutes, then it´s just fine. Problem with tyres: You simply don´t wait all on the track, but enters the track from spectate instead. No other cars than the timesetting car and the inlapping car are on track. The rest is on spectate. In that way all can watch each drivers attempt to make a good time. Very funny! And the driver gets much more nervous because of the spectators...like in the real world.
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Post by towzt on Feb 2, 2009 20:07:57 GMT 1
just to point out for that reset thingy, if we do so, we should let people loose 2 laps if they need a reset why? because i calculated that (with just stopping and departing again) you loose about 30 secs, it is not uncommon to loose another 50secs on reapairing your car, so if you do a reset, you get fresh tires and a brand new sparkly car. so 2 laps at least if you ask me. if you call for a saftycar, and you go into the pit, you will almost automatically loose 1 lap. Off topic; my mouse fell on the floor and my cat attacked it, so have to retype everything cuz she hit the red cross in the upper right corner
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Post by towzt on Feb 2, 2009 20:24:09 GMT 1
also, i changed my name from FRT27 towz-T to just towz-T, i knwo its against the rules, but can i keep it since i am nog longer part of FRT
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Post by xtian on Feb 2, 2009 22:31:20 GMT 1
about reset: you also go back on track with cold tyres and the maximum amount of fuel you were supposed to have at the start of the race so there IS a possibility that you'd find yourself with 100% fuel at the end of a race when everybody's running hot tyres and 10 % fuell. on some cars it makes quite a difference too.
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pe
Full Member
OLD_Mumhra
Posts: 104
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Post by pe on Feb 2, 2009 23:08:19 GMT 1
It only makes a very little difference on an oval and since we agreed that you can't compere these safety car procedures with safety car procedures in other races i still think that a reset is not the way to go. As long as you are not on the roof normally you should be able to get to the pitlane. Maybe at only 20 mph but that is what the safety car is used for after all.
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Post by sloknuckles on Feb 3, 2009 1:11:31 GMT 1
Towzt, when you have fuel refill set to 60%, LFS tries to put in 60% of one tank of fuel. It does not try to fill to the 60% level. If you don't need fuel, hit f12 and adjust the refill value before you stop. Safety Car: I agree that we should not call out the SC for every spin or accident, only when a vehicle is incapacitated. That means the driver of the disable car should request the SC. Several of us had incidents that did not require the SC, but it was called out anyway. I will be out of town next Sunday, so I will miss the last race. Have fun everyone.
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Post by SLO_Scatter on Feb 3, 2009 1:34:02 GMT 1
In oval racing there really is no need to use reset, unless you really got it all wrong and end up on your lid. While I like the races to be realistic I also want to finish the race, instead of watching after getting stuck in the kitty litter or on my roof. But reset is for road courses where those dangers exist. I guess that's where our opinions differ Mum, if I read you right. But you guys have made valid points. No need for reset, and no blue flags...sort of. In Nascar or the Indy Race League (IRL) there are no blue flags, but under a caution the lead lap cars are allowed to go in front of the lapped cars. Same thing in Nascar, on the restart the lead cars line up on the outside lane, and the lapped cars line up on the inside lane. Which means that they restart side by side. I don't think we want to go that route. Probably single file restarts.
As for the SC, it's hard to know which car to watch in case an incident happens. I was usually watching Xtian, while keeping an eye on the track map watching for one of the little arrows to start spinning. Then I would show the Safety Car text. And maybe I did that too often, but I was treating it like an oval race where the race officials call the cautions. Was that right...I don't know? From what I've read it wasn't. So next time the driver that needs a SC can call it.
When I did bring the SC out I drove 120 kmh. But when the cars were not keeping up with me I slowed down to let them catch up, which they never did. I could go up to 160 kmh to help you guys keep your temps up, but I was afraid I was getting too far out front. You tell me. IMO though, the field should have been closer to the SC rather than hanging back so far. But if I was at fault I accept that.
Qualifying: Mum explained it right. Have 1 car do the outlap, then when he starts his hotlap the next car starts his outlap. The car that just finished his hotlap slows and starts his inlap. But that scenario means that everyone only gets 1 hotlap instead of 2 hotlaps.
So we just need to tweak it for this Sundays official race.
I'm open to your comments.
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Post by humbleridderen on Feb 3, 2009 1:48:16 GMT 1
scatter. It was Sennaboy who slowed down dramatically..pretty dangerous. I think he wanted to slow down the field, so he could make a surprise start. When we are on the brakes and very crowded, he can accelrate and we will be unable to really follow in the same speed.
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pe
Full Member
OLD_Mumhra
Posts: 104
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Post by pe on Feb 3, 2009 9:34:35 GMT 1
It must have been a long read for you Scatter . You seem to think that we sometimes differ on opinions but if i read your text i must say that we don't differ at all. I think we agree completely . In oval racing there really is no need to use reset, unless you really got it all wrong and end up on your lid. While I like the races to be realistic I also want to finish the race, instead of watching after getting stuck in the kitty litter or on my roof. But reset is for road courses where those dangers exist. I guess that's where our opinions differ Mum, if I read you right. I agree fully. I understand the need of a safety car and a reset in normal road racing. Smaller cars, that are normally not used for racing (like the XFG) tend to flip over easily. It's sad to see your car flip in the early stages of a race. Especailly if you have been practising hard on a track and to see your race end just after a few minutes just sucks. Same thing with the gravel traps. If you get stuck your race is over. Therefor a reset is great on those types of races. But here, on this oval we don't use a safety car to help out stranded racers. We use a safety car in order to have closer racing. (And we are not the only ones who do that lol. I even remember that when the CART series came to Zolder they actually used a safety car for no reason at all. Nothing happened on the track. Sebastian Bourdais just got to far ahead and they neutralized the race). Like i said, we use a safety car for closer races. There are no gravel traps. And these cars (the FZR and XRR) have lots of downforce. They don't flip so easily. Normally you just slide against the wall untill you stop. I really don't see a need for a reset in this race. Whatever you do with other races is up to you but i have no problems with a reset in those races. I have another solution tho but i don't think we can use that in this league. I once entered an 8 hour race (Le Mans style) and we had the choice between the 3 big GT's. But there was a problem with the XRR. Because of the engine being in the front and the traction on the rear wheels that car easily gets stuck in the gravel trap. The other 2 cars (FXR and FZR) did not have that problem. This ofcourse gave the other 2 cars a big advantage. To solve that problem we used a tow truck. It was a RB4 with knobbly tyres and it was very high on its wheels. When you got stuck you just had to call for it and it came out and actually pushed you back on the track. You ofcourse lost a lot of time but your race was not over and that was great. I don't think we can use that in this league tho because if you do that, then that means that there always is 1 person who can't race because he must sit in the RB4. So therefor i can live with the idea of resets on a normal road race. In Nascar or the Indy Race League (IRL) there are no blue flags, but under a caution the lead lap cars are allowed to go in front of the lapped cars. I don't have a problem with these blue flags. It just makes it difficult imo. One time i got a blue flag but i did not have to let the car that was behind me pass me. I had to let the car that was behind that car by. Difficult to see. And why ? It was not like i could not race with the cars up front. Same thing in Nascar, on the restart the lead cars line up on the outside lane, and the lapped cars line up on the inside lane. Which means that they restart side by side. I don't think we want to go that route. Probably single file restarts. Well... i actually like this thing better. If you are a lap down you have to take the inside lane, otherwise outside lane. It's better then the blue flags imo but i still don't see the need for it. As for the SC, it's hard to know which car to watch in case an incident happens. I was usually watching Xtian, while keeping an eye on the track map watching for one of the little arrows to start spinning. Then I would show the Safety Car text. And maybe I did that too often, but I was treating it like an oval race where the race officials call the cautions. Was that right...I don't know? From what I've read it wasn't. So next time the driver that needs a SC can call it. I actually think you did a great job with that safety car. The only fault you made was that a few times you entered the pits at the wrong place on the track. You should enter it at the cones. You did not came out to often imo. I even think that you can't come out enough. As said before : "We use this safety car in order to have closer races". If i were behind the wheel i would do the same thing. Watch the map and from the moment an arrow points in the wrong direction call out the safety car myself. It's like that in real nascar races as well. If you wait for people to call out the safety car you might just as well throw the idea away because i think noone will call for it. You can to easily loose a lap in this situation and nobody wants to be a lap down. Or maybe you can throw away the obligated pit stop so that when you do crash you still are just behind the leaders. But that then again gives people who can't keep the opportunity to use the safety car wrongly. So that they don't loose a lap. If the leaders got to far it's easy to spin my car and call for a safety car. I would be behind the leaders again. When I did bring the SC out I drove 120 kmh. But when the cars were not keeping up with me I slowed down to let them catch up, which they never did. I could go up to 160 kmh to help you guys keep your temps up, but I was afraid I was getting too far out front. You tell me. IMO though, the field should have been closer to the SC rather than hanging back so far. But if I was at fault I accept that. Not your fault Scatter. Like i said... you did great. Humbleridden explained it correctly. Sennaboy was leading the race and he used the safety car like we do over here in Europe. Perfectioned by the king of cheaters Michael Schumacher. First you make sure there is a big gap between you and the safety car, then you give full throttle and then, just before the start/finish line you brake so that the cars behind you almost crash into eachother and finally you give full throttle again. That way you have a nice lead when the green flag falls. I'm not mad at Sennaboy. That is how it works over here in Europe. So it's only normal he copied it. But that is not how it works in Nascar racing. The leader of the race stays close behind the pacecar. That car drives at 100 mph. The pacecar pits in and the leader is now the pacecar. He can hit the throttle when he wants but he's not allowed to go slower then that 100 mph. He can go slightly faster if he wants. And from the moment he gives full throttle he has to maintain that. The other cars are not allowed to pass him before start/finish line. That's how it works in America and that is how it should work. The cars are very close to eachother when the green flag drops and that is what we are looking for. Close racing... Qualifying: Mum explained it right. Have 1 car do the outlap, then when he starts his hotlap the next car starts his outlap. The car that just finished his hotlap slows and starts his inlap. But that scenario means that everyone only gets 1 hotlap instead of 2 hotlaps. Yep.. only 1 hotlap. But.. what do qualifying results actually mean on a 3 hour race on an oval ? If the racing is close then passing someone on an oval is simple. You can go from last place to first in just a few laps. Qualifying ain't that important in this type of racing i think. I'm open to your comments. Your welcome
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Post by humbleridderen on Feb 3, 2009 10:19:51 GMT 1
I´m not for the idea of having SC all the time..only if it´s severe cases. Because, if you have Sc all the time, it doesn´t matter if you have build up a big gap or have a good pitstrategy, which can put you that far ahead that you can be 1 lap in front etc. Then I don´t see any reason for having a long race, if strategy is not important. Then we could just do n 45-60 minutes race.
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Post by sennaboy on Feb 3, 2009 10:21:39 GMT 1
Hi all, it seems i play it wrong Well i hit my brake ones , the first SC. After that braking in the first safety car i dint brake anymore before starting and giving full tortle i put my car in 4th gear an slow down, waiting for the moment to fly away.I asked it to admin Hans and he said i could play it that way , nobody said i had to hold a minimum of 100 km/h , so i was think i play it well.Sorry if i do it wrong. greets sennaboy
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